In this Q&A with The Texas Lawbook, Nur Kara discusses the traits she seeks in outside counsel, what outside counsel need to know when working with her and more.
Texas Lawbook: What do you look for in hiring outside counsel?
Nur Kara: As my legal marketing team outsources very little work, I have not yet had the opportunity to vet and hire outside counsel. That said, I have had the pleasure of working with trusted firm counsel for niche questions and assessments and have valued the distinct perspectives they have been able to provide as individuals outside of the business looking in with fresh eyes. When we are innovating so fast with leanly resourced team and expected to provide risk mitigating counsel at first glance, it’s helpful to lean on outside to dig into the litigation landscape for tangible examples to drive business clarity.
Lawbook: What does outside counsel need to know about working with you?
Kara: I think the most helpful thing to know about me and my team is how much work we truly keep and address in-house with top-notch talent. That means we rely on specialized outside counsel for particularly unique and complex asks, and to creatively add value in other areas — for example, delivering hot topic CLE presentations; drafting litigation, regulatory and policy trackers and training materials; and partnering on pro bono and professional development projects.
Lawbook: What are your pet peeves with outside counsel?
Kara: Our outside counsel is fantastic — prompt and thorough and true experts! But having been on the other side, I now know as an in-house attorney that the business moves at lightning speed, requiring the most efficient counsel. Unnecessary are the long, beautifully written memos and case summaries I once drafted as a litigation associate! A few, quick bullets on point do the best job.
Lawbook: Have you had any life impacting events that impacted you as a person or your career?
Kara: There are many small and big events that have impacted me as a person and my career, but two that clearly come to mind cemented the value of family to me and the importance of prioritizing the personal on my path to professional growth. Two months into my master’s program in London, while living with my grandparents, my nana (grandpa) suddenly passed away, requiring me to support my 76-year-old nani (grandma) who, now widowed, had not been without my grandpa since getting married at age 16. In my last semester of law school, at the height of Covid-19 lockdowns, my father had a severe heart attack that put him in a two-week coma. I moved back home to Texas and helped with his rehab, delaying and taking my exams virtually. I somehow managed to pass my exams, graduate on time, pass the bar exam and get my dream job, the Krantz Fellowship at the law firm DLA Piper LLP, which enabled me to exclusively do global pro bono work for one year. Overcoming these challenges all at once proved my ability to thrive under true pressure but also changed my outlook on life and family. While I can’t help getting stressed by work, I now try to remind myself that it is just that — work and a job, with infinite opportunities available — unlike the people we love and get the limited chance to cherish.
Lawbook: What pro bono or public service efforts would you like us to highlight?
Kara: My commitment to public service has been a throughline in my pre- and post-law career. Coming from humble beginnings, it is my duty and passion to uplift those in need with my relative privilege. My community service and global internship and work experiences have demonstrated that. Starting under supervision in law school, I have undertaken many varied legal pro bono efforts. I have represented immigrant clients from Mexico, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan and Honduras in seeking humanitarian relief, such as special immigrant juvenile status, asylum and temporary protected status. I have represented survivors of domestic violence in successfully obtaining protective orders. I have also engaged in class action impact litigation, representing students with intellectual and developmental disabilities in a segregated school system subjected to separate and unequal education against the state of Georgia and detainees subjected to inhumane conditions in a state-funded facility in St. Louis, Missouri. Aligned to my purpose as a global citizen, I have also developed global pro bono projects along access to justice and women’s health and advancement. For example, with my prior firm DLA Piper’s nonprofit affiliate, New Perimeter, I led and drafted a menstrual health law and policy report for a nonprofit client, Days for Girls International, led anti-sexual-harassment trainings for college students in Rwanda and had the chance to present my work at the 2021 Washington Goalmakers Conference on SDGs 5 and 10: Gender Equity. When based in Massachusetts, I achieved the state’s pro bono high honor roll. Now, as a recently returned Dallas native, I am helping formalize a pro bono program for PepsiCo Plano’s law department and building external partnerships with Legal Aid of Northwest Texas, beginning with nonprofit clients serving survivors of domestic violence. I also mentor law students through the company’s Larry Thompson Fellowship law school internship program and underrepresented college students transitioning from community colleges to four-year colleges through the PepsiCo Foundation. Lastly, I am a co-founder of PepsiCo Plano’s law department office committee, The Connective, devoting extracurricular time to coordinating team recognitions, social events and continuing education opportunities.
Lawbook: What has been the biggest transition going from a law firm to being an in-house counsel?
Kara: I think the biggest and most positive transitions for me have been the ability to own brand clients, the relative autonomy to conduct my work and directly providing counsel to cross-functional leadership as in-house counsel. I find myself growing and thriving as a legal professional, shifting away from a highly specialized and billable hour-governed role to learning up on not just one new practice area — marketing/advertising law — but also on intersecting regulatory, intellectual property, nutrition science and communications concerns. Needing to be a business-focused generalist has increased my adaptability, legal acumen to quickly issue-spot and evaluate risks, relationship-building and communications, and project management skills. I now know that the biggest misconception is that in-house attorneys have it easy! The pace at which the business innovates, our lean legal teams and the relatively few matters sent to outside counsel means there’s never a lull, but I have appreciated so deeply integrating with my legal department and the business, understanding how to balance business strategy and operations with legal risk, and providing meaningful proactive counsel in just two years so far with the company. It is rewarding to see my impact in-market with each asset and product I’ve touched in my work.
Lawbook: What has been your best day so far at PepsiCo?
Kara: No single day has been the best, because the people, my legal colleagues and the company culture truly make me look forward to my days on the job. I am fortunate to work under the mentorship of exceptional leaders who not only bring a wealth of legal expertise but recognize the value of taking the time to learn about me, my goals and our collective impact. Despite their busy schedules, I see my colleagues take the time to personally connect with each other. I see my own managers intentionally prioritize empowering and advocating for me and my team, whether it be regarding professional achievements or personal life circumstances. I appreciate the culture that PepsiCo has built around empathic leadership and voicing opinions fearlessly. Advising marketing is also the most fun — keeping me on my toes with all the latest trends and fresh concepts!
Lawbook: What advice would you give younger lawyers thinking about going in-house?
Kara: Don’t listen to the common advice that you can’t transition in-house until midcareer — try anyway. Think about the new skills you want to develop, the industries that interest you and the extracurricular involvements available that will enable you to grow as a legal professional and as a person. Think about the culture you want to have at your place of work and among your teams and the personal and professional “balance” you want to have. I say “balance” in quotes, because it is a myth, no matter where you work. But things may ebb and flow in either direction, depending on your season of life and personal circumstances. You will want empathic leaders and supportive colleagues at those times.
Click here to read the Lawbook profile of Nur Kara.