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Mitsui GC Linda Primrose discusses her hero in life, what she seeks when hiring outside counsel and efforts at diversity and inclusion.
The Texas Lawbook: Who is your hero in life and why?
Linda Primrose: My parents — for their love and encouragement and for teaching me strength and kindness, and that goofiness is fun. They also showed me what a successful and loving partnership looks like. I could say so much about my parents. But the short of it is, my mom grew up very poor but was persistent and creative and a great basketball player! She was still very frugal when I was growing up. We often shopped at thrift stores, always used coupons (I still do) and were never wasteful. She was very successful in her career and also achieved local acclaim as an actress and stage performer. I have several of her paintings and sculpture decorating my home. She tragically lost her life in 1994 to multiple myeloma after a short and painful battle with the disease. She had previously battled breast cancer and was in remission, so this second cancer was a real kick in the teeth. I thank God every day for the creativity she brought into my life. My husband is also creative, an Emmy and Peabody Award-winning sound engineer for television, including Saturday Night Live, Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and Guiding Light. I like to think that I was drawn to him because of my childhood spent around creative people.
My dad grew up with more opportunity than my mom and is more a math and science person (electric engineering and computer science). He taught me to carefully manage my finances and to think and influence with logic. My father was the first manager of people that I knew, so I learned a great deal about the kind of leader I wanted to be while at the dinner table hearing about how he managed a particular situation with his team or about how he handled a terrible boss, etc. But most of all, my dad encouraged me to stand on my own and that there was nothing that I couldn’t do if I worked at it. Any professional successes I’ve experienced, I consider his successes too.
Together, the creative artsy mom and the more conservative and straight-laced IBM manager dad, were a dream team and are my heroes.
Lawbook: What are the factors you consider when deciding about hiring outside counsel?
Primrose: There are really three main factors (none of which are dispositive) and then several helpful others: expertise, experience with Mitsui and cost.
Mitsui has such a diversity of industries and legal needs, so my in-house team are excellent generalists and each has developed certain expertise over time. However, we cannot be subject matter experts in everything that Mitsui needs. It’s not possible with our lean team. Therefore, the first important factor is does the firm or particular lawyer have the specific expertise we need for a given matter?
Second, how well does the firm know Mitsui? Mitsui is a particular kind of client. We like to get into the details and understand why a firm is making certain recommendations. We may ask more questions than other clients (or so I have heard from outside counsel). We have particular areas of risk sensitivity, and our history helps inform some of our actions and decisions. We also have a matrixed organization with various internal corporate governance policies and practices for approvals. Law firms we have successfully engaged before can more seamlessly work with our team and make our lives easier while adding significant value to the transaction or other matter. That doesn’t mean we won’t engage new counsel on a matter, especially if we need a particular area of expertise. However, we need to balance these factors so that our in-house counsel can most effectively use our own time and resources.
Third, we must consider cost. The legal department is a cost center, not a profit center. So we need to ensure we are getting the most value for our dollars.
Lawbook: With recent court decisions and legislation in Texas, DEI efforts have come under fire or seemingly been restricted. What can corporate legal departments such as Mitsui and the law firms that work for you do to keep the momentum going toward better diversity and inclusion in the legal profession?
Primrose: There is much we can do to promote diversity, equity and inclusion in the legal profession, but I’d like to focus on two items: (1) changing mindset and (2) building the pipeline.
Changing mindset — I believe that too often companies think of DEI as only necessary to meet regulatory requirements or to demonstrate a check-the-box accomplishment. If court decisions and legislative change take away that first point, what are we really left with under this way of thinking? We need to change mindset. We need to understand that the value of diversity and inclusion is not for reporting statistics or just for show. The value is that people with different backgrounds and experiences bring a diversity of thought to the organization. They bring different viewpoints, ideas and solutions. They can consider other options and see other impacts and opportunities. How is that seen as anything other than benefiting the matter, the problem and the team? A diverse outside counsel team can offer these same benefits to its clients.
Building the pipeline — DEI is not a one-time, check-the-box issue. I am the first female (and first non-Japanese) general counsel at Mitsui USA, and that is great. That is progress. But it doesn’t stop there. I need to ensure that there is a pipeline of potential successors that includes talented, capable diverse candidates. I believe strongly in hiring the best candidate for a position period. But to ensure that historically underrepresented people are represented at law firms and with in-house legal teams, they must be represented as candidates for these positions at all levels. GCs and law firm management should impress upon their HR departments, talent management team and/or recruiter that the hiring person wants to see a diverse pool of qualified candidates. Let the HR professionals and recruiters do the work. Candidates exist and can be found and encouraged to apply for positions. Interestingly, I’ve learned that women (myself included) will only apply to a position for which we feel fully qualified or even overqualified, whereas men will apply for positions for which they have about half of the stated required qualifications. They assume they can learn the rest. It’s truly remarkable confidence, and I applaud it actually. But it means that highly qualified women may not even apply for a position and may need encouragement/recruitment. Building the pipeline just means ensuring there are more opportunities to be seen and considered in larger numbers.
So if we are successful at changing our mindset and see the value of diverse thinking, then we need to ensure that there is a pipeline of qualified lawyers who can bring that diversity of thought to their role.
And yes, I personally like it when a law firm brings a diverse group to the table for a pitch or meet and greet. I’m turned off immediately when I show up to a very homogenous room. I will still consider the firm because expertise, knowledge of Mitsui, and cost are all important factors. But the firm will have a higher mountain to climb with me.
Lawbook: You have a master’s degree in environmental sciences and then worked as a scientist at BEM Systems. What kind of work did you do for BEM and how has that experience impact your legal work later or now?
Primrose: I mainly conducted Phase I and II Environmental Site Assessments pursuant to ASTM standards. I also worked on some asbestos testing/removal and UST testing/closure. As mentioned earlier, it was actually my work with environmental consulting that helped drive me to law school in order to try fixing things from the inside. Unfortunately, both law school and living in NYC are rather expensive endeavors, and so I needed to take a BigLaw job to pay the bills. It turned out to be a wonderful experience. And with Mitsui, I am able to use my skill and experience to help guide our approach to environmental issues in investments, disputes, investigations, operations and CSR activities. It may not be the “inside” I envisioned more than 20 years ago, but I’m proud of what we are doing, including our decarbonization efforts (for example, CCS projects, renewable natural gas investments, solar power projects and hydrogen in mobility).
Click here for the full profile of Linda Primrose.