On the day she announced her resignation as U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Texas, Erin Nealy Cox sat for an exclusive interview with Mark Curriden and Bruce Tomaso of The Texas Lawbook. The interview touched on a broad variety of topics, from dealing with COVID-19 to the opioid crisis to her legacy after three years in office to the pipeline of white-collar fraud cases she initiated that, she says, will come to fruition in the next few years.
Here are excerpts. (Questions and answers have been edited for brevity and clarity.)
The Texas Lawbook: . So, you’ve been in office three years and a month. How’s it been?
ERIN NEALY COX: It’s been fantastic. It’s been the job of a lifetime. No two days have ever been the same. I’ve felt grateful to do the job every day.
TLB: What’s been the biggest surprise?
NEALY COX: I guess it’s been the challenges we’ve met with. We had a courthouse shooting. We had a government shutdown. We had a pandemic. We had civil unrest. It’s been a really challenging time – and that’s not even to mention all the normal challenges that you would have as the chief federal law enforcement officer in the district.
What’s been so impressive to me is the perseverance and resilience of the assistant U.S. attorneys in my office and of our federal law enforcement partners in the FBI and the DEA and the ATF. We can’t just pause because of these challenges. The wheels of justice have to keep moving, and we’re the people who have to keep them moving.
I’ve never been so inspired as I have during these challenges. We’re all fighting to make sure that we help the communities that we serve, and we’ve never given up on fulfilling our core mission. It’s been incredibly gratifying to be a part of that.
Lawbook: Any regrets about leaving the office?
NEALY COX: I wish I was able to do it longer, but I’m so grateful and happy to have done it for as long as I could. The one thing I know is that I gave it all I could for as long as I could. I’ll continue to do that until the very last minute.
Lawbook: We were intrigued that in the Forest Park Medical Center case, you used the Travel Act to prosecute a federal case where there really weren’t a lot of federally insured victims. How did you come up with that idea as a way to move forward in a medical fraud case you might not otherwise been able to get your hands on?
NEALY COX: We weren’t the first people to do it. We’re not going to take full credit for that. But what I can say is that the Forest Park case is indicative of the types of cases that we have tried to bring in the Northern District of Texas. Sometimes we have to get innovative where the law allows it and pursue fraud cases with every tool that we have in the toolbox.
What I’m probably most proud of is the cases you’ll see in the next three-plus years. White-collar fraud cases don’t turn on a dime. We make these cases strategically. They take a lot of resources. They take a lot of thoughtfulness. And the work that we’ve been doing in the last couple of years, you’ll be seeing the fruit of those labors in the next few years. Look for more cases coming that are really tamping down egregious behavior.
Lawbook: A lot has been written about your use of the Travel Act in a medical fraud case. Has your office done anything to sort of export that approach to others? Have you given workshops or seminars or made presentations to other U.S. attorneys?
NEALY COX: Without speaking specifically to the Forest Park case, U.S. attorneys across the country try to collaborate as best we can. You see that happening in many areas.
I’ve been privileged to serve at the national level as head of the AGAC [the Attorney General’s Advisory Committee, a body of federal prosecutors advising the U.S. attorney general on policy and operational issues], and part of what we do is make sure that no one has to re-create the wheel every time. With some variety, we encounter a lot of the same issues across the country. So we’ve put the best and brightest minds together to solve problems, and of course we’re going to collaborate where we can.
I’ve had the privilege of serving with 92 the best and the brightest in law enforcement [the other U.S. attorneys across the country], and I feel grateful to have those colleagues. I’ll have them for life. I’ve really enjoyed working with them. We done some pretty spectacular things by sharing our thoughts and ideas.
Lawbook: Unfortunately, a lot of talented prosecutors have left the U.S. attorney’s office to pursue other career opportunities.
NEALY COX: Yeah, you know, it’s part of the ebb and flow of any U.S. attorney’s office. We try to hire the greatest people we can, and sometimes they don’t stick around. I’m certainly not one to judge that. I’ve left myself and come back. I’m proof that the adage is wrong that you can’t ever go home again. I think you can.
One thing that we’ve been the direct beneficiary of is an amazing increase in resources. I’ve hired 50 assistant U.S. attorneys since I took office. And over half of those are brand-new positions. We’ve had more positions given to us by Main Justice in the last three years than we’d had in the last 30. And it’s not just in Dallas. I put prosecutors in Lubbock. I put prosecutors in Amarillo. I put prosecutors in Fort Worth. Everywhere I could put prosecutors. I put prosecutors.
We competed for those spots at Main. They didn’t just go to, you know, the districts in New York that typically get those spots. They went to places where we can really make use of them, and we are making use of them. A big part of my legacy will be those hires and really advocating on behalf of the district to give us those resources. We have 200 to 300 people apply for every spot. And it’s heartening to know that there are that many people out there interested in the life of public service, because we certainly don’t pay them well.
Lawbook: Do you get to personally interview every candidate for assistant U.S. attorney?
NEALY COX: I do. In fact, I insist upon it. I view that as one of the most important things to get right – to get the right kind of talent and the person that wants to be here for the right reasons. That’s the secret sauce. That’s the that’s the formula that’s going to work best.
Lawbook: On the subject of cybersecurity, one of the things we talked about a couple of years ago is how remarkably unprepared companies – and government agencies – are for attacks, despite the mountains of evidence that they should be more careful. Are you still finding that’s the case?
NEALY COX: There’s a lot more awareness about cyberattacks than there was 10-plus years ago, when I was working on some of those cases in the private sector. But the same mistakes continue be made. Security always comes at the price of convenience. What you see in some of these cases is people just taking the easy way out – having simple passwords, not locking down administrative privileges, not doing virus checks. Just the basic hygiene work that has to be done to keep systems clean.
On the other end of the spectrum, you see some very sophisticated attacks. Companies and governments are falling victim to that as well. So you really have the problem playing out on both ends.
Hackers are smart. They’re going to take advantage of people who don’t do the basic things. So we need to keep reminding people that a little inconvenience is worth it in the long run.
Lawbook: You mentioned upcoming white collar cases. Without getting specific, what kinds of cases are you talking about?
NEALY COX: What you’re going to see are cases across the spectrum. Financial fraud, elderly fraud, oil and gas fraud, bankruptcy fraud, and a lot of COVID fraud – unfortunately, people exploiting the pandemic for their personal profit. These cases are going to be keeping prosecutors busy for a very long time. And of course healthcare fraud.
We’ve had a steady slate of healthcare fraud cases for a number of years, and I’ve gotten even more resources on healthcare fraud – four more prosecutors doing that work than we had before. We’ve hired new, talented people from the private sector who worked these cases from the defense side, and people from the public sector who worked fraud in other cities. I’ve hired people from Manhattan and Chicago and Washington, D.C. That kind of infusion is going to really, really help us make great cases.
Another thing I’m focused on, and we’re really starting to see the fruits of this, is our partnership with national entities. We’re not a sleepy little province district anymore. We’ve partnered with FinCEN [the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network in the U.S. Treasury Department that collects and analyzes information about financial transactions to combat money laundering, terrorist financing and other financial crimes]. We’re one of the few partners that SIGPR [the special inspector general for pandemic recovery] has on its cases. These efforts are going to generate cases against the types of fraud that we all know are going on in our communities and that we should be the ones prosecuting.
Lawbook: Has COVID hampered your ability to utilize grand juries? A lot of these white-collar fraud cases do require long-sitting grand juries.
NEALY COX: I would have thought we’d really struggle to get our grand juries, to get a quorum. But remarkably we have not. We have impaneled new grand juries during COVID. We’ve had dedicated grand jurors show up. The only time we’ve ever had no grand juries was at the beginning stages of the pandemic, when Chief [U.S. District] Judge [Barbara] Lynn basically shut down the entire courthouse.
We’ve had five grand juries going every month since we opened back up. We’re one of the few districts that had trials. A lot of other districts, both in Texas and outside, haven’t had grand juries or trials since March. In other places in the country, there’s been a lot of justice delayed.
Of course, we have a lot of safety protocols. We’ve partnered with the district clerk’s office to make sure we convene in bigger rooms. Everybody wears masks. There’s plexiglass and hand sanitizer and everything is wiped down. We’re doing everything possible to protect people.
Again, I harken back to the talent and dedication of the people here. It’s just been amazing, and the grand jurors are part of that. I’m so thankful to them.
Lawbook: Opioids have been such a big issue. Isn’t there a white collar criminal element to that as well?
NEALY COX: Absolutely. Absolutely. And there’s a civil element as well. Over the past couple of years, our team has come together in a really synthesizing way. We’ve put our healthcare fraud prosecutors together with our narcotics prosecutors together with our affirmative civil prosecutors, and we’ve been making pill mill cases and opioid cases at every single level that we can. We’re not working in silos any more.
When you’re dealing with something as big as the opioid crisis, you have to look at your resources and start putting them together so you have a flywheel effect of combining everyone’s information and intelligence and making these cases wherever you can make them We’re making them civilly. We’re making them criminally. We’re charging with our healthcare fraud section, with our narcotics section. We have to approach it that way, because that’s the only way we’re going to get on the other side of this.
Opioids is a huge problem for the country and for our communities. I’m not sure we’ve had as much visibility as we need to here in terms of drawing attention to overdose deaths, and we’ve been working behind the scenes with the cities that we serve to help with that. We can’t let up on our efforts to figure out how to solve this problem, because it’s a really brutal one. Unfortunately, we’ve talked to too many families that have been affected, and, you know, it’s devastating.
Lawbook: Is there an issue on the pharmacy side?
NEALY COX: Absolutely. Of course.
Lawbook: Are we going to see charges against businesses in the offing?
Of course. In our district, you’ve seen everyone in the ecosystem being looked at. We’re not just going to look at one bad actor. It’s not just people selling opioids on the street. It’s got to be at every level, and, unfortunately, that’s going to include pharmacists and doctors. We’re going to look at everyone that’s contributing – the people who are selling the drugs, the people who are making the drugs, the people who are buying the drugs. That’s the only way we can really make a difference. We can’t put blinders on to anything that’s happening. We’re looking at all aspects.
Lawbook: You mentioned COVID fraud. Can you give us an idea what you’re talking about? Is it insurance fraud? Phony treatments? People taking advantage of government aid programs?
NEALY COX: The answer is yes and yes and yes. We have a commodities fraud case where a so-called trader was trying to lure investors when the market was going down the tank in the early days of the pandemic. We announced a $24 million fraud case off the paycheck protection loan program. We shut down with civil TROs people selling phony vaccines and therapeutics.
Unfortunately, there’s absolutely going to be more of that to come. It’s a shame. We’re all going through this awful, unprecedented event together. You’d think we’d all pull together and band together, but there’s always an element that’s going to try to profit off of people’s tragedies.
You’d think there’s a level that people won’t go to, but unfortunately, they will.
Lawbook: Why do you think there was less emphasis on white collar crimes before you came in? Prior to that, when the FBI had a big white collar financial matter, they kind of knew the Northern District wasn’t really that interested, so they’d take it to the Eastern District.
NEALY COX: I’m not sure I found the answer when I got here as to why. I certainly found a lot of willingness to look at what we were doing very critically and think about doing it in a different way.
We’re not the investigators. We take what we get from our investigative partners If there is a priority coming down like national security or violent crime reduction or the opioid crisis, there’s a finite amount of federal resources. When those resources get pulled in different directions, whether it’s because of a new, unique challenge across the country or whether it’s because the administration is putting resources in those areas, we respond to that.
The investigative agencies don’t want to give us cases we don’t want to take, and we don’t want them wasting their time on cases we’re not interested in. So a big part of our strategy is making sure those two things are aligned and not working in opposite directions. When we all row in the same direction, good things come.
I remember this from my days as an assistant U.S. attorney [1999-2008], and it’s still true: Our partnership with our agencies is something we really have to watch, in terms of relationship building. Having a great AUSA teamed up with a great agent can be just amazing, so part of what I’ve done is really encourage the team aspect of our prosecutions. It’s not the AUSA bringing the case; it’s the AUSA leading the team bringing the case, which we can’t do without our federal agents. We have to be respectful of each person’s role and work together.
We have to be proactive about communicating. When I was here before, I never went out to the agencies. The phone rang, and you took what was coming in. These days, we need to be way more proactive than that. I go out to the agencies all the time. So do my AUSAs.
I have some great relationships with our federal partners and all the respect in the world for what they do and how they do it. It’s been a real privilege to get back into working with them.
TLB: When you came in, did you make it clear to them that you were interested in white collar cases.?
NEALY COX: Yeah, definitely I did. And after working with me for a bit, they tended to answer the phone like, “What do you want now?” (Laughs.)
TLB: How have relationships been with the SEC?
NEALY COX: Good. You know, they’ve had some switchover while I’ve been here. [David Peavler became director of the SEC’s Fort Worth regional office in July 2019; the position had been vacant since January of that year, when his predecessor, Shamoil Shipchandler, left to join Jones Day in Dallas.] It’s a little difficult right now because they’re full telework and we’re in our offices, and it may be a little harder to move cases along when you can’t meet with folks. But their leadership is super-interested in working with us. We’ve shared a bunch of stuff with them and vice versa.