In a special feature for Premium Subscribers, Kindel Nuno discusses with Mark Curriden, founder of The Texas Lawbook, her life mentors, her best and worst days at Mattress Firm, her criteria for hiring outside counsel, important things to consider for the lawyers she hires and her biggest challenges ahead.
Find Curriden’s extended profile of Kindel here.
Texas Lawbook: Any life or career mentors?
Nuno: My parents, particularly my mother. She probably doesn’t realize it though. I’ve watched her my whole life, and any time I am walking into a situation where I am a bit uncertain how to handle it or if I need to get outside my comfort zone, I think about what my mother would do. My unofficial career mentors would be Shauna Clark and Jody Putnam. I do periodic “gut checks” with them whenever I’m challenged or need to talk through situations. Jody has given me a lot of guidance on how to manage people and work relationships. I trust them both immensely.
Lawbook: What led you to go to college at Vanderbilt?
Nuno: Vanderbilt was the furthest away I was accepted. I wanted to get out of Texas, meet new people, explore the world. And then, of the 30 girls on my freshman hall, 20 of them – no lie – were from Houston. Private school, to be exact. And blonde. I called my mother. I had grown up in Sugar Land, which is extremely diverse, and had attended public school my entire life. My mother had to assure me that there were actually quite a large population of blondes in the U.S. and it was completely normal to see so many at once. It took me a while, but I adjusted to Vanderbilt and absolutely loved it. I was a tour guide, a founding member of the Vanderbilt Activities Council, VUCEPT orientation leader and mentor, and joined a sorority – all in all, I had a fantastic college experience. I graduated in three years.
Lawbook: Why law school at UT?
Nuno: My sister and I had both attended the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science during our junior and senior years of high school. TAMS students live in a dormitory at the University of North Texas and take college classes, graduating with two years of college credit. The Texas legislature had established the school to address a study that had found that many students drop out of medical and engineering career paths because of the extensive number of years in school required and the cost. A few misfits, like myself, bucked the system and ended up as lawyers. After the expense of Vandy, I couldn’t pass up in-state tuition at a highly ranked law school like the University of Texas. Not to mention, Austin was very similar to Nashville.
Lawbook: What was your best day and worst day at Mattress Firm and why?
Nuno: There have been a number of truly awful days, where I felt personally abused and disrespected by my peers and the board. But I don’t want to talk about those days. The best day: The day they gave me the 2017 Integrity Award, which is one of three annual value awards given to an employee for exemplifying the core values of the company – service, integrity and passion. Lawyers rarely receive positive feedback.
At the law firm, positive “feedback” was given in the form of more work. In-house, it meant that I received an occasional thank you and, for the most part, people didn’t try to circumvent legal review or involvement. Needless to say, I was absolutely shocked when our COO announced my name as the winner of the Integrity Award. Integrity – that most fundamental character trait of lawyers. I was humbled, honored and, for the first time in my life, in a true state of disbelief. I kept saying “You gave this to a lawyer?”
I’m not completely sure why that was my response, but it was likely that, in a company full of outgoing salespeople, I didn’t expect the lone lawyer in the room to be recognized for anything special. That, and all the lawyer jokes constantly shared around the office in my presence….
Lawbook: What do you look for in hiring outside counsel? Do you have specific criteria?
Nuno: Price, competency, responsiveness and connection. Not necessarily in that order.
Lawbook: What does outside counsel need to know about you?
Nuno: I once spoke on a panel of in-house counsel where the topic was “what do you wish outside counsel knew,” and I kept reiterating: I have no money and I have no time. By the end of it, everyone was advocating that we put it on a T-shirt to sell! But it’s true. Outside counsel needs to understand that I don’t have a paralegal or a secretary, so when they ask for excessive details and unnecessary documents, I’m personally the one that needs to track those things down. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve blown up at counsel for saying “well just get your paralegal to do this.” I wish! Now at least I have help, but we’re still only a team of five lawyers, myself included, and we had to let our paralegal go in the recent COVID-19 cost-cutting measures.
I have a budget to which I am held accountable, which means I don’t want an excessive number of lawyers touching the file and I expect real ROI for the price I’m paying. About me personally? I have high expectations and I want direct, competent answers. Probably not much else to say on that.
Lawbook: Obviously, race is a big issue today. The Texas Lawbook has published dozens of articles over the past eight years about the lack of diversity in the legal profession. Despite all the efforts, the numbers seem to barely move. Why is that? Are there actual solutions to improve diversity within corporate law firms and in-house legal departments?
Nuno: Honestly, I think the changes needed to be made far earlier in life – meaning pre-K or grade school. By the time a student reaches high school, college, grad school and then law firm stages, it’s too late. Too many have self-selected out or been forced out due to circumstances, need or lack of encouragement. It’s not easy to get into a good law firm for anyone – much less someone who has faced challenges and doubt since birth. We need to ensure that there is an equal opportunity from the very start – nutrition, involved parenting and early childhood education. I serve on the board of directors of Children at Risk, and this is exactly our focus. Children who have those elements in life – typically white children – excel at school sooner and better than those that don’t – typically black or Hispanic children. If a child stumbles or falls at the very start of the race, how can we truly expect them to compete fairly? It’s not that there aren’t any qualified nonwhite law students out there – it’s that there’s not enough. We need to increase the population and the firms will follow.
Lawbook: How did you decide what legal and financial advisors to hire for the restructuring?
Nuno: Sidley Austin had represented the management team during Steinhoff’s acquisition of Mattress Firm in 2016. I had never liked our “official” corporate/finance counsel during my time at Mattress Firm. (I’d asked them once “who’s your client? The company or the PE fund?” and their response was the PE fund.) In December 2017, I called the partner at Sidley who’d helped out and asked for a recommendation for finance counsel. He put me in touch with Kelly Dybala. Upon hearing our financial situation, Kelly immediately pulled Bojan Guzina into the conversation. Bojan was instrumental in helping us navigate and, frankly, survive the next several months. The Sidley team was incredibly competent, supportive, responsive and dedicated.
As far as financial advisors, we interviewed several. At the end of the day, our CEO said that if he was walking into a battle, of all the advisors he’d met in the process, he wanted Durc Savini in the trenches with him. Durc was with Guggenheim, so that was that. Durc and the Guggenheim team walked into battle with us, heads held high. We were incredibly fortunate to have both advisors with us during that experience.
Lawbook: Were you surprised at the expense of bankruptcy?
Nuno: Absolutely! So many fees! It’s disheartening how greedy and selfish people can be when a company is in dire straits. We were fighting to survive, and everyone else just wanted to extract their pound of flesh.
Lawbook: What are the biggest challenges for corporate in-house counsel in the years ahead?
Nuno: Staying relevant and connected in a post-COVID era and helping the company navigate incredibly sensitive topics in a way that fosters and encourages change and forward progress without alienating leadership.
Lawbook: In the nearly two years since exiting bankruptcy, what have been the biggest challenges and projects for you?
Nuno: The biggest challenge since emergence has been gaining the trust of a new management team and board of directors. I definitely started with a deficit. Projects have varied, with some of the most significant being guiding the company through the COVID-19 pandemic with mandated store closures across the country, new safety protocols, landlord disputes and an immediate need to return to our minimal cost mindset of prebankruptcy days and renegotiating our relationship with Tempur-Sealy.